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People voted Labour out on local issues such as the mess they have made of refuse collection and the towwn centre. They dont want labour trying to sneak back in by the backdor. The old labour adminstration were undemocratic and unacountable and its time for them to go. We dont want them back

BOB, I'm not sure what mess has been made of the "towwn centre" and why you think it is the council's fault? Perhaps you could enlighten us?

Whatever is done , anywhere, there will always be someone who moans about it. Like I've said in the past, the ones who moan are the ones who do nothing. Bob, if you can do better, put yourself up for election.

[quote][bold]Owain Vaughan[/bold] wrote: BOB, I'm not sure what mess has been made of the "towwn centre" and why you think it is the council's fault? Perhaps you could enlighten us?[/quote] If you cannot see what mess that Newport town centre is being turned into you must be walking around with your eyes shut. It is a planning disaster. An ill thought out scheme which is far too large and a road scheme that must have been dreamt up by a two year old. What has it to do with Newport Council? Are you really that daft? I agree it is not totally Newport Councils fault. The unelected quango Newport Unlimited must take responsibility for a considerable amount of this mess. Having squandered millions on a pointless footbridge I see they have now run out of money for the scheme and whatever bit of it they manage to deliver will be late. No surprise there then. Everyone in Newport fully expected that. In any sensible development building a pointless bridge would not be a priority. So now we have a bridge and d no money to complete the rest of the development. Do you think that is sensible because I don’t and know one else does. The new administration needs to totally review the planned redevelopment and scale it back to bring it back into budget. Review the mess that is being made of the Bus Station. It also needs to review the role played by Newport Unlimited in this poor planning. It may well need to bring another partner in to replace them.

Bob, you have demonstrated that you know absolutely nothing about funding issues.

City, bob. City. Keep saying it until you remember. [quote]If you cannot see what mess that Newport town centre is being turned into you must be walking around with your eyes shut. It is a planning disaster. An ill thought out scheme which is far too large and a road scheme that must have been dreamt up by a two year old. [/quote] Bob, you really haven't got a clue have you? Rather that spouting hyperbole, why don't you give some concrete examples of what you think is a "planning disaster" or ill-thought out? [quote] What has it to do with Newport Council? Are you really that daft? I agree it is not totally Newport Councils fault. The unelected quango Newport Unlimited must take responsibility for a considerable amount of this mess. [/quote] What mess? It is a work-in-progress. Or are you so uneducated that you believe things can happen instantaneously. The world doesn't work like that as any five-year-old has worked out. [quote] Having squandered millions on a pointless footbridge I see they have now run out of money for the scheme and whatever bit of it they manage to deliver will be late. No surprise there then. Everyone in Newport fully expected that. [/quote] What are you talking about? The paving on the west bank is now nearly complete. Don't think for a minute that you speak for everyone with your whinging. [quote] In any sensible development building a pointless bridge would not be a priority. So now we have a bridge and d no money to complete the rest of the development. Do you think that is sensible because I don’t and know one else does. [/quote] Bob, there is something called "vision" which you clearly lack. It is the ability to see beyond the next five minutes and plan for the future. In case you haven't noticed there is a great deal of development planned on the east bank (which you can have a moan at). Also part of the rationale for the bridge (which Newport taxpayers didn't pay for) is as an iconic structure. You know? Things that don't serve any purpose but look nice? This looks nice AND does something. [quote] The new administration needs to totally review the planned redevelopment and scale it back to bring it back into budget. Review the mess that is being made of the Bus Station. It also needs to review the role played by Newport Unlimited in this poor planning. It may well need to bring another partner in to replace them. [/quote] Don't be a fool. The bus station is a hideous carbuncle. The sooner that is razed the better. Why do you care what the budget of a private developer is anyway? You're not paying for it. Better save the money for your therapy.

i agree with bob how much has been spent "improving" newport town centre over the years ,it seems to me that they just rebuild it every 25 years or so

You agree with Bob in the form of a question? How much has been spent? Who cares? It's private money! Do you even know how the economy works?

owen my dear boy,I was refering to the amount of taxpayers money spent on the city center since the early eighties this will be the third new bus station we will have had since then,Iseem to remember that this"hideous carbuncle"was also described as a "vision" Newport council havent got a clue

Bruce/Bob The problem is that the needs of society change with time. You might argue that this change is continuous, and you'd be right. However, it would be pointless replacing new infrastructure and buildings, so the older buildings get it. Yes this is the squandering of money. However, if someone can inform us as to the needs of society in 50 years time, then please let us into your little secret fantasy world... Planners can only guess at best... And whatsmore, we people who "know" better than them, are clearly blindly ignorant. We cannot assume to know the reality of a development option that does not occur. We can imagine, but this is as limited, if not more so, as the planning process itself... With regard to the city centre road schema, the footbridge, etc. I would strongly suggest that instead of impassioning yourselves with biassed opinions, you actually [bold]walk[/bold] around the centre and its development, and attempt to view it in context. Only then might you appreciate what has been proposed and the intention of the planners. I must say I've tried it myself, and have impressed myself with what I believe their vision was... As a little hint, stand at the top of Charles Street, and look down the street towards the footbridge - walk it with your eyes if you like... With regard to Newport Unlimited being an undemocratic quango.... Just what is the council??? You don't think that you change the [bold]civil servants[/bold] who actually make the decisions and choices by election do you???? Your vote doesn't change the bin men, it doesn't prevent construction of those projects already at site, and it certainly isn't going to improve our roads, and that is regardless of who you choose to place an "X" next to... Most of the society we have grown to dislike today is of our own creation... However, few are willing to accept or acknowledge this, as it would be preferable to lay the blame at doors of others... If you like people are in denial over their own choices, and attach this bitter sentiment to the projects that are undertaken by governments and councils in a vain attempt to feel better... - look at a certain "media mogul"... As for the city centre, its developmental future has been thrown into doubt by the [bold]private[/bold] investors... I wonder why they were unwilling to take the risk of putting money in???? Nothing to do with the stifling negativity of the local population I would hope????

yes but will they pull it all down in 25 years time?

[quote][bold]bruce[/bold] wrote: yes but will they pull it all down in 25 years time?[/quote] Some of it, yes. We must remember that the fashion of re-development in the 90's and early 00's was to build out-of-town. Now developers are back in the centre re-doing old buildings that have fallen into disrepair, together with creating an improved environment. It wouldn't matter where you were, this happens UK-wide - Cardiff are doing it, Swansea, Bristol, Birmingham has done it... Newport has always been reticent to move forward and develop, and often this has led to compromises being made that has resulted in the ultimate failure of developments to achieve their goals... We blame poor planning, but no planning process can duly account for people's behaviours and attitudes. We must accept that change is necessary and important, as stagnation reduces ambition which will stifle creativity and development - both important facets of building a future...

[quote][bold]bruce[/bold] wrote: i agree with bob how much has been spent "improving" newport town centre over the years ,it seems to me that they just rebuild it every 25 years or so[/quote] Unfortunately Newport has been blighted by a council and developers that lack vision and also built things totally out of keeping with the character of the town. We have the eyesore which is claimed to be an arts centre when there was already an ideal building in the form of the old arts college We have a lack of proper parking facilities and a very poor road scheme. They want to encourage people to use buses so what do they do but come up with a bus station that far too small and has many safety issues and many buses will terminate in different parts of the town. That’s bad planning. If they want people to use buses then they need to provide a proper high quality bus station with proper facilities and maintain & clean it on a regular basis A tower block of flats is another piece of incompetence most towns are pulling them down not putting them up and flats all over the UK are proving very difficult to let. There is a small niche market for very high quality developments such as London’s docklands & Cardiff bay but Newport Railway station I don’t think so. One also needs to take into account changes in shopping trends so people will prefer to go to out of town developments that are on a single level and provide plenty of safe parking close to the stores. It may not suit the planners but that what people will use. The Internet is also fast changing the retail world. The amount of purchase via the internet is rapidly growing and this is leading to a rapid fall in the numbers using high street retailers. This means that town centre shopping centres will need to get smaller as less and less shopping is done in the high street particularly as the Internet can undercut the high street because of its much lower cost base. Little seems to be being done about the dirty unkempt litter covered streets of Newport and the drunks and tramps that inhabit it in fact they seem keen to encourage more with more drinking dens opening by the week. As the money has already run out e will see more and more bits of the scheme cut out and also more cost cutting on the quality of the development. What they should have done is produced a much smaller and viable scheme rather then grand visions that will never be developed. We will end up with another hotch potch development

here here.

Bob you miss a vital point of development. If you plan for what is done and demanded now, then those things being built will be obsolete before they're even completed. Again, you demonstrate that we have a great idea of what we need [italic]now[/italic], but little idea of what we need in 25 years time. Whilst that may not matter to yourself, others of us are concerned with how the place will be then, as it will affect our futures. Lets paint a little picture here. Petrol will be around £10 per litre. Other energy prices will also be high. People will want to travel shorter distances by means that do not cost much - i.e. foot and cycle. That must be convenient and quick, perhaps at the expense of Mr Motorist, but why should someone be disadvantaged by not owning or running a car??? This is where the flats come in. Flats were the rage in the 60's and 70's, when in real terms petrol costs were more (vs. lowest wages) than they are now. You are correct, Newport has been slow getting onto the bandwagon of development. But your statement that development is inappropriate for Newport, is wholly symptommatic of the issues that are really faced. People in Newport are "happy" to exist as they are. Except we're not!! Newport is currently set between 2 economic groups. We've a growing population of "Yuppies" - Young Urban Professionals. This is a group of educated individuals who enter "professional" careers. We also have a large number of "manual labour" type jobs, which has formed the mainstay of the Newport job market for some time now. The planners have recognised that the move away from manual labour jobs has arrived in Newport. In fact, it arrived a long time ago, just these people were a silent minority for some time. They now form a significant proportion of the population, and the trend is for this move to continue. So long as this is the case, then trends in people's behaviour around Newport are going to change. With time we will see massive changes around Newport in the job market. We have already seen the loss of many manufacturing jobs around Newport, and the creation of office jobs instead. This is the trend... Newport currently has an image problem. And will continue to do so until the [bold]people[/bold] strive to shake it off... Are people on this site proud to be Newportonians? On talking to outsiders, they see Newport as the hang out for drunk, drug-abusing, jobless, ill-educated yobs. I'm not happy to be considered as any one of those things, and would welcome any changes that rid us of that image. The council were right to see the Ryder Cup as an opportunity to change that widely held image, but unfortunately it would seem that the people are not so ready for a change, and would rather people's beliefs about our behaviours and attitudes were confirmed!! Obviously, now that we know the centre will be a building site come 2010, there is little hope of any other image being evident to those rich tourists, jeopardising our opportunity for a massive improvement!

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